Force power proposal: Force Heal & Force Drain
Brend
Dragonmaster352
Stuiter
Elmer
Mercury
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Force power proposal: Force Heal & Force Drain
Brend » Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:57 pm
Since we don't have enough force powers yet, Chriz and I thought up a few new ones.
FIrst in line are the mandatory Heal and Drain, which we gave a nice twist based on the associated philosophies.
● Power: The Jedi can create local numbness and a calming effect as if applying a local anesthetic. This power can not be used on yourself.
● Rank 1: The Jedi can cure normal infections, heal cuts and bruises and restore pulled muscles and tendons. The Jedi can use their healing power a number of times per day equal to the Rank the Jedi has in this power. This power can not be used on yourself.
●● Rank 2: The Jedi's healing power can now heal minor wounds such as a torn tendons, stop internal bleeding and reset dislocated joints. Depending on the severity of the injury, this can take from a few minutes to an hour.
●●● Rank 3: The healing powers of the Jedi continue to improve, allowing them to cure serious injuries such as broken bones, damaged organs and radiation poisoning. Depending on the severity of the injury, this can take a few hours.
● Power: The Jedi continuously drains the smallest of lifeforms. This makes them immune to disease and heals small cuts, bruises and restore pulled muscles within minutes without any conscious effort. With a conscious effort, the Jedi can drain another being to recover from exhaustion. This power can only heal the Jedi.
● Rank 1: The Jedi can drain the life force of another being, to heal minor wounds such as a torn tendons, stop internal bleeding and reset dislocated joints. Depending on the severity of the injury, this can take from a few minutes to an hour. This power can only heal the Jedi. This power can be used a number of times per day equal to the Rank the Jedi has in this power.
●● Rank 2: With concentration, the Jedi can more effectively drain another beings life force, allowing them to recover from serious injuries such as broken bones, damaged organs and radiation poisoning. Depending on the severity of the injury, this can take a few hours. This power can only heal the Jedi. The Jedi can use this power once per day.
●●● Rank 3: Achieving mastery of the flow of life energy, the Jedi can now act as a channel to transfer life force from one being to another. Achieving this rank removes the 'This power can only heal the Jedi' condition, allowing the Jedi to use all effects of Force Drain to benefit another, as long as there is a being to drain the energy from. It is now explicitly allowed to drain yourself.
(Also on the wiki at: Force Heal and Force Drain)
We advice carefully reading both before commenting on the balance.
FIrst in line are the mandatory Heal and Drain, which we gave a nice twist based on the associated philosophies.
Force Heal
Force Heal is one of the Force Powers available to the Jedi. This power is only capable of healing others.● Power: The Jedi can create local numbness and a calming effect as if applying a local anesthetic. This power can not be used on yourself.
● Rank 1: The Jedi can cure normal infections, heal cuts and bruises and restore pulled muscles and tendons. The Jedi can use their healing power a number of times per day equal to the Rank the Jedi has in this power. This power can not be used on yourself.
●● Rank 2: The Jedi's healing power can now heal minor wounds such as a torn tendons, stop internal bleeding and reset dislocated joints. Depending on the severity of the injury, this can take from a few minutes to an hour.
●●● Rank 3: The healing powers of the Jedi continue to improve, allowing them to cure serious injuries such as broken bones, damaged organs and radiation poisoning. Depending on the severity of the injury, this can take a few hours.
Force Drain
Force Drain is one of the Force Powers available to the Jedi. This power allows the Jedi to heal and recover by taking the life force of others.● Power: The Jedi continuously drains the smallest of lifeforms. This makes them immune to disease and heals small cuts, bruises and restore pulled muscles within minutes without any conscious effort. With a conscious effort, the Jedi can drain another being to recover from exhaustion. This power can only heal the Jedi.
● Rank 1: The Jedi can drain the life force of another being, to heal minor wounds such as a torn tendons, stop internal bleeding and reset dislocated joints. Depending on the severity of the injury, this can take from a few minutes to an hour. This power can only heal the Jedi. This power can be used a number of times per day equal to the Rank the Jedi has in this power.
●● Rank 2: With concentration, the Jedi can more effectively drain another beings life force, allowing them to recover from serious injuries such as broken bones, damaged organs and radiation poisoning. Depending on the severity of the injury, this can take a few hours. This power can only heal the Jedi. The Jedi can use this power once per day.
●●● Rank 3: Achieving mastery of the flow of life energy, the Jedi can now act as a channel to transfer life force from one being to another. Achieving this rank removes the 'This power can only heal the Jedi' condition, allowing the Jedi to use all effects of Force Drain to benefit another, as long as there is a being to drain the energy from. It is now explicitly allowed to drain yourself.
(Also on the wiki at: Force Heal and Force Drain)
We advice carefully reading both before commenting on the balance.
Dragonmaster352 » Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:23 pm
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Dragonmaster352 - Storyteller
Is force drain intentionally designed as a more sith like power? The way it is written now suggests you could drain someone or something of all their life energy, logically this would cause that someone or something to die. IMO that would be something for a sith to do.
Stuiter » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:36 pm
I think it is good for the Force that you can do something more with it. But with these I just get a clerk/priest and necromencer image, no real Jedi fit.
Elmer » Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:22 pm
I understand that they are indeed meant as a dark side/white side combo. Where the one needs to exists in order for the other be a valid choice. By introducing both 'good' and 'evil' powers, players are not limited to the 'good' prescribed by us only, but they can develop their jedi the way they see fit.
I think these powers nicely shows the dark side/white side of the force, while at the same time giving the player the option to be 'good' or 'bad' depending on what he or she does with the power.
I think these powers nicely shows the dark side/white side of the force, while at the same time giving the player the option to be 'good' or 'bad' depending on what he or she does with the power.
Brend » Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:37 am
It is indeed so that the Force Drain is much more suited for a Sith. This is intentional: whenever I introduce a clearly sided power (whether it is dark or light) I try to introduce another power that is of the opposite polarity.
You can indeed use Force Drain to kill someone or some creature. In fact, I would usually let a normal stormtrooper die if the Rank 1 or Rank 2 power was applied. Note that you can not drain 'something' it must be a living creature.
@Stuiter: Using the Force to influence living things is one of the main things the Force does, and healing or transferring life energy seems to me to be a very good way to express this. I would also like to note that these powers are (to me at least) a logical extension of the Life Energy Manipulation power.
You can indeed use Force Drain to kill someone or some creature. In fact, I would usually let a normal stormtrooper die if the Rank 1 or Rank 2 power was applied. Note that you can not drain 'something' it must be a living creature.
@Stuiter: Using the Force to influence living things is one of the main things the Force does, and healing or transferring life energy seems to me to be a very good way to express this. I would also like to note that these powers are (to me at least) a logical extension of the Life Energy Manipulation power.
Mercury » Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:07 am
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Mercury - Storyteller
I like the idea of Jedi Healing, but I think all healing should require time. This should not be a magical healing spell that quickly cures those who were hurt - its Star Wars, not D&D and Jedi aren't Clerics. I'd also require the target to be willing.
I think the Force Drain power should list explicitly what happens to someone being drained. Currently it is unclear what this means. I would apply similar effects to the Jedi doing the Healing btw.
I don't like the third rank of the Force Drain power. The reason for this is the ordering.
Currently, the lowest level powers are evil while the higher level ones are "saving grace" powers, where you can use them for good. I would reverse this - if at lower levels the power is still a "it -might- not be evil" whereas at high levels it goes full blown evil, this would be a much better 'temptation' so to speak.
Regarding fittingness - I think these were actually Jedi powers in several Jedi games (Jedi Knight, Jedi Academy) where they seemed fitting to me. Also, Force Drain was way too cool to take more than one level in though ^_^Again though, I don't think these should be instantaneous, spell like effects, but rather slow processes.
I think the Force Drain power should list explicitly what happens to someone being drained. Currently it is unclear what this means. I would apply similar effects to the Jedi doing the Healing btw.
I don't like the third rank of the Force Drain power. The reason for this is the ordering.
Currently, the lowest level powers are evil while the higher level ones are "saving grace" powers, where you can use them for good. I would reverse this - if at lower levels the power is still a "it -might- not be evil" whereas at high levels it goes full blown evil, this would be a much better 'temptation' so to speak.
Regarding fittingness - I think these were actually Jedi powers in several Jedi games (Jedi Knight, Jedi Academy) where they seemed fitting to me. Also, Force Drain was way too cool to take more than one level in though ^_^Again though, I don't think these should be instantaneous, spell like effects, but rather slow processes.
Brend » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:30 pm
Based on the comments so far, Mercury and me discussed these powers over teamspeak. We discovered that the the way I interpreted them was based on the philosophy of the Unifying Force, whereas his interpretation was based on the Living Force.
Because these philosophical underpinnings have a profound impact on how the powers work, we decided it would be best to split them up. So, behold our Mercury and my new proposal (which includes a changed Force Drain as well):
● Power: Calling on the Force the Jedi can speed the recovery of someone else. The Jedi can create local numbness and a calming effect as if applying a local anesthetic. This power can not be used on yourself. The Jedi can use their healing power a number of times per day equal to the Rank the Jedi has in this power.
● Rank 1: The Jedi's healing power improves to cure normal infections, heal cuts and bruises and restore pulled muscles and tendons. Doing this will also create local numbness and a calming effect as if applying a local anesthetic. This power will take at least a minute.
●● Rank 2: The Jedi's healing power can now heal minor wounds such as a torn tendons, stop internal bleeding and reset dislocated joints. Depending on the severity of the injury, this can take from a few minutes to an hour.
●●● Rank 3: The healing powers of the Jedi continue to improve, allowing them to cure serious injuries such as broken bones, damaged organs and radiation poisoning. Depending on the severity of the injury, this can take a few hours.
● Power: Letting their life energy flow to someone else, the Jedi can heal them. The Jedi's healing power can cure normal infections, heal cuts and bruises and restore pulled muscles and tendons. This power can not be used on yourself. You can use this power freely, but every time you use this power, you will get a -1 Force Level for the rest of the mission as you transfer your life energy to someone else. It takes a few minutes to allow someone to recover with this power.
● Rank 1: The Jedi's healing power can now heal minor wounds such as a torn tendons, stop internal bleeding and reset dislocated joints (it can also heal smaller injuries). Depending on the severity of the injury, this can take from a few minutes to an hour.
●● Rank 2: The healing powers of the Jedi continue to improve, allowing them to cure serious injuries such as broken bones, damaged organs and radiation poisoning. Depending on the severity of the injury, this can take a few hours.
●●● Rank 3: The Jedi's compassion and healing power is of such magnitude that they can now revive those that just died. Depending on the severity of the injuries that caused death, this can take from a few hours to days. Note that the body needs to be in relative intact state to be able to revive someone; missing critical organs might prevent this power from working.
● Power: The Jedi continuously drains the smallest of lifeforms. This makes them immune to disease and heals small cuts, bruises and restore pulled muscles within minutes without any conscious effort. With a conscious effort, the Jedi can drain another being to recover from exhaustion. The victim must be a weak opponent, or must be helpless. The victim is left exhausted, but will only die from this if they were in a severly weakened state. This power can only heal the Jedi.
● Rank 1: The Jedi can drain the life force of another being, to heal minor wounds such as a torn tendons, stop internal bleeding and reset dislocated joints. Depending on the severity of the injury, this can take from a moment to a few minutes. The victim must be a weak opponent, or must be helpless. The victim is left exhausted, but will only die from this if they were in a severly weakened state. This power can only heal the Jedi. This power can be used a number of times per day equal to the Rank the Jedi has in this power.
●● Rank 2: With concentration, the Jedi can more effectively drain another beings life force, allowing them to recover from serious injuries such as broken bones, damaged organs and radiation poisoning. Depending on the severity of the injury, this can take from minutes to a few hours. The victim must be a weak opponent, or must be helpless. The victim is left exhausted, but will only die from this if they were in a severly weakened state. This power can only heal the Jedi. The Jedi can use this power once per day.
●●● Rank 3: With intense concentration, you can drain someone until they die. This will give you a +1 Force Level for the rest of the mission. Completely draining someone takes a while, so this power can't be used to drain someone during combat. The victim must be a weak opponent, or must be helpless. This power can be used once per mission.
Because these philosophical underpinnings have a profound impact on how the powers work, we decided it would be best to split them up. So, behold our Mercury and my new proposal (which includes a changed Force Drain as well):
Force Heal (Unifying Force)
Force Heal is one of the Force Powers available to the Jedi. This power is only capable of healing others.● Power: Calling on the Force the Jedi can speed the recovery of someone else. The Jedi can create local numbness and a calming effect as if applying a local anesthetic. This power can not be used on yourself. The Jedi can use their healing power a number of times per day equal to the Rank the Jedi has in this power.
● Rank 1: The Jedi's healing power improves to cure normal infections, heal cuts and bruises and restore pulled muscles and tendons. Doing this will also create local numbness and a calming effect as if applying a local anesthetic. This power will take at least a minute.
●● Rank 2: The Jedi's healing power can now heal minor wounds such as a torn tendons, stop internal bleeding and reset dislocated joints. Depending on the severity of the injury, this can take from a few minutes to an hour.
●●● Rank 3: The healing powers of the Jedi continue to improve, allowing them to cure serious injuries such as broken bones, damaged organs and radiation poisoning. Depending on the severity of the injury, this can take a few hours.
Force Heal (Living Force)
Force Heal is one of the Force Powers available to the Jedi. This power is only capable of healing others.● Power: Letting their life energy flow to someone else, the Jedi can heal them. The Jedi's healing power can cure normal infections, heal cuts and bruises and restore pulled muscles and tendons. This power can not be used on yourself. You can use this power freely, but every time you use this power, you will get a -1 Force Level for the rest of the mission as you transfer your life energy to someone else. It takes a few minutes to allow someone to recover with this power.
● Rank 1: The Jedi's healing power can now heal minor wounds such as a torn tendons, stop internal bleeding and reset dislocated joints (it can also heal smaller injuries). Depending on the severity of the injury, this can take from a few minutes to an hour.
●● Rank 2: The healing powers of the Jedi continue to improve, allowing them to cure serious injuries such as broken bones, damaged organs and radiation poisoning. Depending on the severity of the injury, this can take a few hours.
●●● Rank 3: The Jedi's compassion and healing power is of such magnitude that they can now revive those that just died. Depending on the severity of the injuries that caused death, this can take from a few hours to days. Note that the body needs to be in relative intact state to be able to revive someone; missing critical organs might prevent this power from working.
Force Drain
Force Drain is one of the Force Powers available to the Jedi. This power allows the Jedi to heal and recover by taking the life force of others.● Power: The Jedi continuously drains the smallest of lifeforms. This makes them immune to disease and heals small cuts, bruises and restore pulled muscles within minutes without any conscious effort. With a conscious effort, the Jedi can drain another being to recover from exhaustion. The victim must be a weak opponent, or must be helpless. The victim is left exhausted, but will only die from this if they were in a severly weakened state. This power can only heal the Jedi.
● Rank 1: The Jedi can drain the life force of another being, to heal minor wounds such as a torn tendons, stop internal bleeding and reset dislocated joints. Depending on the severity of the injury, this can take from a moment to a few minutes. The victim must be a weak opponent, or must be helpless. The victim is left exhausted, but will only die from this if they were in a severly weakened state. This power can only heal the Jedi. This power can be used a number of times per day equal to the Rank the Jedi has in this power.
●● Rank 2: With concentration, the Jedi can more effectively drain another beings life force, allowing them to recover from serious injuries such as broken bones, damaged organs and radiation poisoning. Depending on the severity of the injury, this can take from minutes to a few hours. The victim must be a weak opponent, or must be helpless. The victim is left exhausted, but will only die from this if they were in a severly weakened state. This power can only heal the Jedi. The Jedi can use this power once per day.
●●● Rank 3: With intense concentration, you can drain someone until they die. This will give you a +1 Force Level for the rest of the mission. Completely draining someone takes a while, so this power can't be used to drain someone during combat. The victim must be a weak opponent, or must be helpless. This power can be used once per mission.
Brend » Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:34 pm
Chriz pointed out some rather big unclarities in the above post. I will be updating it shortly.
I have updated the previous post (see deleted and added text). I would recommend using common sense when encountering these powers in missions.
I have updated the previous post (see deleted and added text). I would recommend using common sense when encountering these powers in missions.
Brend » Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:17 pm
Unless someone objects, I will put these force powers on the wiki in the upcoming weekend (the one of 2014-02-22).
Elmer » Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:44 pm
I have a small issue with the living force power: '...you will get a -1 Force Level for the rest of the mission...' Because some missions require flying from A to B, which takes a week or more. I think it is a little strange when one time this effect lasts effectively a day, and the other time it can last a month. I propose to change this to a more time dependent part like: you will get a -1 Force Level. '...you need a full week of rest and meditation to get this back.'
This is still effectively the same, but creates more peace of mind for me. And this allows the player to do more in long missions.
This is still effectively the same, but creates more peace of mind for me. And this allows the player to do more in long missions.
Brend » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:31 am
I would agree with you, if we had a good way to measure the passing of time. However, we do not have such a thing as Jedi missions happen in OOC-Quantum time.
The only clearly defined measure of time we can all agree on is 'one mission'.
I think that only a few weeks is much too short to fully recover... So for me this would not be the same, this would significantly improve the power.
Seeing how the Jedi missions easily last for 3 real time months, but usually happen in about 3 OOC-Quantum weeks (~1 week of flying there, 1 day of being cool, ~ 1 week of flying back) I think that recovering from using the very intense Force Heal will take several IC months, and that doesn't bother me at all.
If we bind the recovery from this power to 1 week, why won't players just camp out for a week to recover their -1 Force Power? The meaningful choice here is choosing the self-sacrifice to save someone else, not the 'where should we camp for a week so I'm fully charged again?'.
That being said, I agree that having extended downtime as part of the missions should allow for some recovery of force powers, just like the rank times per day powers can be recovered during a mission. However, this power just takes a lot longer to recover from. Part of handling this is ST common sense.
Maybe we should write a separate note on the force power page with some guidelines on 'extended periods of rest allow you to recover'. This would make note of the possible in-mission recovery, in special cases such as being trapped inside a cave for two months, but leave the exact details up to the ST. Would that work to alleviate your concerns?
The only clearly defined measure of time we can all agree on is 'one mission'.
Elmer wrote:This is still effectively the same...
I think that only a few weeks is much too short to fully recover... So for me this would not be the same, this would significantly improve the power.
Seeing how the Jedi missions easily last for 3 real time months, but usually happen in about 3 OOC-Quantum weeks (~1 week of flying there, 1 day of being cool, ~ 1 week of flying back) I think that recovering from using the very intense Force Heal will take several IC months, and that doesn't bother me at all.
Elmer wrote:And this allows the player to do more in long missions
If we bind the recovery from this power to 1 week, why won't players just camp out for a week to recover their -1 Force Power? The meaningful choice here is choosing the self-sacrifice to save someone else, not the 'where should we camp for a week so I'm fully charged again?'.
That being said, I agree that having extended downtime as part of the missions should allow for some recovery of force powers, just like the rank times per day powers can be recovered during a mission. However, this power just takes a lot longer to recover from. Part of handling this is ST common sense.
Maybe we should write a separate note on the force power page with some guidelines on 'extended periods of rest allow you to recover'. This would make note of the possible in-mission recovery, in special cases such as being trapped inside a cave for two months, but leave the exact details up to the ST. Would that work to alleviate your concerns?
Elmer » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:25 pm
Brend wrote:If we bind the recovery from this power to 1 week, why won't players just camp out for a week to recover their -1 Force Power?
Most aspects of a mission are rather short. When you are infiltrating a science facility, diving to retrieve lost information, manning a fighter to keep a space corridor open in a war or wandering through the forest to see how leaves grow you don't really have the time to rest a week. So I don't think that would be a problem. My main point was that during some missions you had a little down time, during hyperspace travel for example. That time would allow for a recovery of a force level sometimes.
That said, I have no problems with a more generic term like: 'extended periods of rest allow you to recover.'
Brend » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:47 pm
I have put these powers on the wiki:
- Force Heal (Living Force) (@Elmer: can you check the note to see if you agree?)
- Force Heal (Unifying Force)
- Force Drain
Elmer » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:14 pm
looks good to me
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