Fwurg

[Brend]

Mercury and I have designed two new force powers we would like to add to the game. Before we do, we'd like to hear your commentary:

Lightning & Vision.

Let's hear it!

[RemcoSwenker]

If I see the power correct only the disrupt electronics is force power uses per day? and the same for seeing trough walls? with the rest of the power limited only by how often you want to use them?

I find it strange that you are limited in how often you can disrupt a device but not in how often you can fry someone's brains. what is the reasoning behind this? And the same question with seeing trough walls.

[Brend]

The idea of the disabling is that it leaves no traces. The normal one-ring lightning is like a blaster, while the disabling touch is without a trace. Because tracelessness is much better than normal destruction, it is limited. Also, 'security camera' is a bit of an understatement maybe, you could also use it to disable the electronic locks on a door, quietly disable the alarm system, etc.

Vision has limitations all over the place: the rank 1 power requires concentration (which might actually require a check), and the rank 3 power requires touching the target. The rank 2 power is limited to use per day because we want to prevent players from using this power on every door they encounter. It should be good, but not that good...

[Gerben]

Coolness, these powers are a welcome addition.

[RemcoSwenker]

Ok I understand the mechanics behind that. But do you also have an in character reasoning? because that is the thing that mostly bothers me with the lightning force power.

[Brend]

It's easy to throw around destructive force, but it's difficult to carefully control it.

Furthermore, I don't think there is much IC reasoning necessary, it's space magic. If this is how it works, this is how it works.

[Stuiter]

I agree with Remco that the lightning force power seems to be going quite Dark.
Furthermore was happens to the user when using the vision power. Does he only see through the subject and not around himself anymore?

[Brend]

I agree with Remco that the lightning force power seems to be going quite Dark.

I'm not sure he meant that. Regardless, what is the problem with having Dark powers as well as Light powers? It is not mandatory to take all force powers, so you can opt not to learn that power if you don't want it, or if you don't think it fits your character.

Furthermore was happens to the user when using the vision power. Does he only see through the subject and not around himself anymore?

I would say that you see through their eyes, not yours. So you would not see things around yourself anymore.

[RemcoSwenker]

space magic is a good enough answer I guess.

then I have no further comments/ questions

[Brend]

If there's not further commentary, I will add the discussed things and the necessary examples to the powers, and put them online in the coming weekend.

[Elmer]

Is the lighting a -/-/1 attack or a 0/0/1 attack? In the description it says that it is a one 1 attack (so -/-/1) but it says that its rings get a bonus equal to the amount of points in the skill (more rings with bonus would thus be a 0/0/0 attack on level 0, 2/2/2 attack on level 2)

I take it that the permanent effect of force lighting is more as an extra? Because so far I cannot think of an situation when force lighting would be better in combat than using a saber. (Seriously, you loose your saber and manoeuvre bonuses)

Are you required to first defence with force lighting before you can use it next round? As it is you attack next round, or is this attack part of the style you use? (e.g. every style has secretly the force lighting manoeuvre in it.) It says you cannot attack or defend with your lightsaber while using force lightning, would this mean that during combat your defence would drop to your force level only, or can you switch to a non-saber style for defence (Paraan Talim, Suus Mahna, Arkari-Renja)

in the description of force lighting level 1 it is not clear that the disabling leaves little to no traces.

The level 3 power is strange, because in the description text of the permanent power it is not stated that you cannot aid an attack with this power. And then with level 3 you can suddenly aid an attack with your weak (force level +3 ) inner attack.

As far I read it, the force lightning power is very weak and its only uses are disabling a device once a day and shoot lighting to make your point as evil overlord (And then you die because your second hand throws you in an abyss). Even a blaster is more useful as you gain more range with it. You don't have to be afraid of those one ring minions anyway, any stronger enemy and this attack is completely and utterly useless.

Force vision looks good to me :)

[Brend]

this attack is completely and utterly useless.

@Elmer: I think you missed a few things with the lightning power. Let me explain:

● Power

The Jedi can throw lightning from their hands, which can be used to make an attack on a single target on the inner ring (this is a one-ring attack). The 'lightning weapon' has an offensive bonus on its rings equal to the number of ranks in this force power. You can not use this with another weapon (not even a lightsaber). For example, you can still hold an activated lightsaber in your hand, but you can't attack or defend with it while throwing lightning.

This passive gives you the option of hurling lightning. This lightning is a weapon. The lightning weapon is a one-ring piercing weapon: - / - / +X .

You get your Lightning ranks as bonus on the Lightning weapon. So if your first learn the power, you have a - / - / +1 rating. The bonus increases with each rank you take.

The lightning is a weapon with some range. The range is about as far as you see people throw lightning in the movies: less than a blaster, but much more than a lightsaber. Also, note how a blaster is at best a - / - / +0 attack, and as you know Star Wars blasters are inaccurate and their range isn't that high. While the lightning is - / - / +1 , and will be more accurate. Next to that is the fact that 'taking a blaster with you' isn't always possible.

EDIT: Furthmore, you can easily use even the first rank of this power to create cave-ins, blow generators up, etc. It's a Force Level + Energy check after all, much more powerful than a mere blaster.

● Level 1

The Jedi can disable an electrical device, such as a security camera or droid, with a simple touch. The device remains disabled until it is fixed. You can use this power a number of times per day equal to the number of ranks in this force power.

You are right. The traceless part needs to be clarified.

●● Level 2

The Jedi can now user her throw lightning ability to attack multiple targets. It is still a piercing one-ring attack.

You can target multiple targets, which is already better than a blaster. This means that you can dispatch a large number of goons in a single turn, which is much better than sabering them down one by one...

Also, with this rank, your lightning's ratings become - / - / +2 .

●●● Level 3

The Jedi can now use her throw lightning ability to attack or support an attack on another force user as an attack on three rings. This can be used as an attack or to aid in an attack.

I think you missed the 'as an attack on three rings'.

So, with this rank, your lightning's ratings become +3 / +3 / +3 . If you have a look at the Lightsabers page, you'll see that this is actually much more offensive than a normal lightsaber (which has at most 4 dots in offence).

Combat Mechanics

You do have a point with regards to the combat mechanics. Those are unclear.

Mercury and I went through a few iterations before we finally settled on this version, so my opinion about this might differ from his, but here goes:

The idea was that you could be more offensive with the Lightning power, as long as you are willing to fully utilize it. That means: getting a combat style to go along with it (which would probably be some form of unarmed or 'gun-kata' style). In which case you would end up being a very offensive foe.

However, you are right that this isn't a viable tactic before you have 3 ranks; as you point out, opponents with ligthsabers are not going to be impressed by your lightning weapon until you can hit them hard with the ●●● rank.

To remedy this, I propose to add the following to the ●● Level 2:

Additionally, you can use this force power to aid in an attack made with another weapon.

That would open up use for DCAs and Advantage Actions just like telekinesis does at second rank. It would not remove the core idea of the power: to give you an innate weapon that is extremely offensive.

[RemcoSwenker]

I think the use as a DCA is a good one to add to the power. It seems very awesome to start with a bolt of lightning and then follow it up with a lightsaber slash.

[Elmer]

So if understand it correctly, you are indeed not able to defend yourself in round N with saber and style in order to use force lightning as an attack in round N+1, but with force power level 2 you can use the lightning as an DCA instead of an attack?

[Brend]

In my proposal, you either use it as a weapon, or as a side-arm for a DCA (just like you can use a blaster to make a DCA)...

[Mercury]

the lightning force power seems to be going quite Dark.

Eeeeeexcellent *taps fingertips together*

So if understand it correctly, you are indeed not able to defend yourself in round N with saber and style in order to use force lightning as an attack in round N+1, but with force power level 2 you can use the lightning as an DCA instead of an attack?

You attack with the style you defended with in the previous round. This means you give up your defensive advantage of your lightsaber in round N as you summon forth the energies necessary to use lightning.

Then in round N+1 you use the lightning to attack with the lightning you charged up the round before.

Personally I wouldn't add the option to use it as a DCA - Force Lightning requires a lot of focused anger and I don't really see that used to aid another attack - imho, it should be an attack on its own, not a backup to support a lightsaber style.

Additionally, I disagree on the need for boosting this further. You can get an additional 5 dots from the weapon - granted this is at rank three, but really at rank 1 and 2 you have no business using Force Lightning against a Jedi, because frankly you're a n00b in regards to the Dark Side.

I think this actually enhances the fluff of the power - at lower ranks, you use the power against nobodies, picking on the weak rather than facing the strong in a fair fight - in true Sith style.

As for usefulness, I agree Force Lightning is not as powerful without the DCA option... but I think it compares fairly to other Force Powers.

[Brend]

I think that, if you can use a blaster in a DCA, you might be able to use Lightning in a DCA. It will just require more creativity (and anger), just like you can use Force Speed in a DCA. It just isn't an automatic DCA as with Telekinesis.

For example, hurling bolts at the machinery next to your opponent, causing an overload and a nice explosion, sounds lika the makings of a DCA to me... Though we won't need to have a special DCA option in rank 2 for this, as it isn't a direct attack.

I have been convinced by Mercury with the fluff explanation: "picking on the weak rather than facing the strong in a fair fight - in true Sith style"!


In my opinion, both powers are good as they are, but we need to make the following clarifications:

• Vision: the Rank 3 power: This takes away your own sight, as you use that of the other.
• Lightning: The Rank 1 power: note that it leaves little to no trace, making it actually different from just blasting the droid/electrical device.
• Lightning: The clarifications on how the 'lightning' weapon scales, as in my explanation post

Are there other comments, clarification requests, etc.? If not, please say so, so I know that your questions have been sufficiently answered.

[Elmer]

I am convinced by Mercury's 'lets bash noobs with lighting >:)' argument as well. But I think allowing it to be used in a DCA from level 2 is a good addition. It does not make the power much stronger but it ads more feeling and use to it. (People are creative enough to make up DCA's anyway so your options are not really increasing that much, only your score if you lack creativity to abuse your skills ^_^ )

I like a clarification of how the force lighting works in combat in the page (maybe at the end of the page so it is not in the way.) To prevent people like me to be confused what steps you have to take to use force lighting.

All my questions are answered.

[Brend]

I have added both powers to the wiki (after putting in the necessary clarifications and notes). I slightly changed their names before adding them to the wiki, to ensure that force powers do not collide with other things by add 'Force' in front of them.

Have a look at: Force Vision and Force Lightning.

If I missed a clarification, feel free to update the wiki and note it here so someone else can review your change.

(I also added navigation boxes to all force powers, for great navigational help!)