Fwurg

[Sundarian Federation]

These are proposed techs that could follow from the Galactic Survey and Colonization summit, i'm interested to hear your idea's and suggestions.

---

basic) Fundamental Observational Astronomy

In astronomy, the main source of information about celestial bodies and other objects is the visible light or more generally electromagnetic radiation.Observational astronomy may be divided according to the observed region of the electromagnetic spectrum. Some parts of the spectrum can be observed from a Planet's surface, while other parts are only observable from either high altitudes or space.

This technology covers the basic understanding of the various fields of Observational Astronomy, which extends for visible light, through the electromagnetic spectrum all the way to astronomy relying on neutrino emission and serves as a prerequisite for further research.

To facilitate the use of the subsequent tech tree, this tech enables the construction of a zone/or spacestation in a Lagrange point to serve as observatory, data- and productioncentre; and offers a small boost in research.

1) Planetary Science and Geology

Planetary science (rarely planetology) is the scientific study of planets, moons, and planetary systems and the processes that form them. It studies objects ranging in size from micro-meteoroids to gas giants, aiming to determine their composition, dynamics, formation, interrelations and history.

From studying the data gained from planet through this technology, viable colony sites can be found.

2) Geophysics / Geodesy / Geodetics

Space probes made it possible to collect data not only the visible light region, but in other areas of the electromagnetic spectrum. The planets can be characterized by their force fields: gravity and their magnetic fields, which are studied through geophysics and space physics.

Measuring the changes in acceleration experienced by spacecraft as they orbit has allowed fine details of the gravity fields of the planets to be mapped. Geodesy, also called geodetics, deals with the measurement and representation of the planets of a solar System, their gravitational fields and geodynamic phenomena (polar motion in three-dimensional, time-varying space ).

Geophysics uses the interactions of gravity, effects following from this tech could involve an improvement in hyperspace technology

[Veolian Commonwealth]

These techs seem interesting. However, I assume these technologies should fit the 'colonization' theme, but after rereading the techs twice already I have the nagging feeling that these techs will not make that happen in their current format.

basic) Fundamental Observational Astronomy ... To facilitate the use of the subsequent tech tree, this tech enables the construction of a zone/or spacestation in a Lagrange point to serve as observatory, data- and productioncentre; and offers a small boost in research.

What's the added value of requiring a real-estate investment such as having to build a zone/space station of measurable size for the use of subsequent techs? Though I could see this mechanic work for some types of technology (applied technologies), I don't think it should be the driving mechanic of a 'fundamental' technology.

Secondly, as already heavily discussed in the OM zone thread, the proposed specialist zone must offer some serious benefits before anyone will actually consider building it in the first place. So I don't think that a 'small boost in research' is going to cut it, especially of one can already build a Tertiary Research Zone.

1) Planetary Science and Geology <snipped> ... From studying the data gained from planet through this technology, viable colony sites can be found.

While knowing where to colonize is nice, this tech does not help me with the actual colonization. And as I should've already built an observatory to comply with the fundamental tech, so why should we need another tech pureply to open our eys? I think the tech that allows me to actually go somewhere there and set up shop might be more useful.

2) Geophysics / Geodesy / Geodetics ... Geophysics uses the interactions of gravity, effects following from this tech could involve an improvement in hyperspace technology

How does this follow from 'Fundamental Observational Astronomy'? This is better developed as an independent technology, or as part of hyperspace oriented techs.


After rethinking the proposed technologies I have a nagging question: How is building an observatory zone/space station better than just equipping a few small and fast survey fleets, and sending those out at faster-then-light speeds? As far as I can think, flying faster than light is actually quicker than waiting until the electromagnetic waves have reached you through space.

Quoted from the map: "Hexagons have sides of 1250 lightyears (2500 lightyears from point to opposite point) and have an area of roughly 4 million square lightyears. On average there are about 140.000 star systems per hexagon. Travel times are 10 days per hex, though hyperspace lanes can significantly reduce the travel time. This means travel to the next system averages to about half an hour without hyperspace lanes."

Even the most ragtag survey fleet will outperform the state of the art observatory the moment the jump to hyperspace towards the next system. And when they arrive at their destination, they can use hypercommunication to send back life feeds of every sensor they deploy, to be analysed at the receiving side in whatever fashion is required.

Note: All of these comments (and more) have been discussed with Gerben through non-forum channels.

[Sundarian Federation]

All raised points are valid,

Other options to consider are:

Long range Hyperspace sensors - opts the construction of a survey fleet, which can then map a sector in 2-3 weeks.

'stasis travel' - grants the ability to transport an amount N of population M, between planets A and B in system X

[Veolian Commonwealth]

I think the option to create a survey fleet is nice -- this does not force one to invest in actual real-estate, while keeping a commitment cost.

The population transfer tech is also very interesting (says the player with 12+ ). Maybe the transfer should be more of on ongoing process, such as transferring 0.1 / or something in that range. That is still an enormous amount of people to be moved, but with hyperspace and the technology level of the setting this should be doable.

However, non of these techs actually allow colonization?

[Veolian Commonwealth]

As a general note: I don't think any of the players is actually interested in colonization at the moment. I know for a fact that me en Chriz don't really see the use (that's 50% of the player base right there) -- and the other two players with a system still have loads of free zones available. Ay system that is better than those zones is probably filled with natives (or other colonists) already...

Second to that, the the colony is a distinct economy and will probably not synergize with your overall economy as well as you'd hope. The costs of setting it up will most likely be enormous, while the running costs will probably be larger than the income provided and the quality of the colony system will not be even remotely ideal.

After careful thinking on this, I think that any colonization technology that we design now will become obsolete as soon as we actually reach the economic sizes that support colonization -- we'll probably develop a technology that allows us a more efficient way of doing things, as we can dump an enormous heap of into it at that point. And if the tech we design now is usable at that point in time, it is absolutely uninteresting at this moment!

To conclude: please don't put too much effort into designing colonization technology that nobody will develop. (That goes for Gerben, admin and anyone else -- please discuss it with the player base before you go off and design five colonization techs that don't see any use!).

I would, of course, be interested in technologies that are of actual use to me; but most mentioned technologies, with the possible exception of the population transfer tech -- I like helping refugees, will not see much use by me.

[Sundarian Federation]

The notes made by Brend are things to be considered,

As interesting as it sounds, the technologies and more importantly the options for colonization, are likely to not be used for at least 75 turns if at all. The main purpose of the summit, which will ofcourse discuss this issue, is not only to design (OOC) / develop (IC) technologies which enable these options.

The first goal of the Summit are the social interactions and roleplay it involves, where subjects as the possible tech design ( on moving pop. for example) , the Green Unity Project and possible other things dealing with the interrelations between factions, which are of secondary interest.

On a more Tech related note: the survey fleets are perhaps better suited as a special project instead of an independent technology, I will ask the Admin concerning this idea.

If so desired, the main topic of the summit can be adjusted to suit the current needs

[Mercury]

I like the idea of a survey fleet - I am currently working out an idea on how to incorporate the basic concept of exploration / colonisation without building full grown colonies with their own economy.

I haven't participated in the discussion, but I am keeping an eye on it and I like the effort that has been put into idea's for technologies - those are actually very useful as besides the stats, a lot of time goes into thinking up how the story will fit with the design, so this kind of thing is really helpful to me.

I look forward to getting started on the summit, at which point I will start fleshing out the options and posting some proposals. I think you'll all be happy with my proposal!