Fwurg

[Jhovall]

Hey,
A few questions on how we apply some of the stats and the possibility of some powers.

- In the star wars universe there is some way of Force resistance against dark side things. (Like force choke, force push). Is it here too and how will it be calculated?
- Since there is no force push power, force choke power, does it mean they will not exist or can the ST make those with NPCs?
- Can I use force related things which are not a power with the energy stat ? Like if I want to force push a grenade out of the way flying towards me?
- Can I use these force related things with Jaicen's droid, or should it go out of Jaicen?
- How does life force manipulation work, I saw Nathan use it on a bunny. While it is just stated that it masks your energy signature. (So it is basically the force power Seev Palpatine used). Nothing against Nathan or how he used it, just wondering.

[Brend]

((Moderator note: I move the topic to the "Game Questions" forum.))

So... That's a lot of questions, so you are getting a lot of answer.

I split them up to one question per post, so that it's easier to refer to a single answer for follow-up questions.

[Brend]

- In the star wars universe there is some way of Force resistance against dark side things. (Like force choke, force push). Is it here too and how will it be calculated?

Short answer: No, there is no special Force resistance.

On a game-rules level, there is no special ability to resist dark side things. Instead the ST weighs your check against the other's check. Since the check includes your Force Level and applicable Force Powers, this will take into account the relative strengths and weaknesses of both characters.

Note also that we do not enforce a distinction between Light and Dark in the rules. There are some powers that have a dark feel, as well as some powers that feel a light feel. But there is no hard distinction in the rules, not between Powers, nor between Jedi and Sith. We do not want to make a declaration on the actual nature of the Force in the rules, and the way we model Force Powers in the rules reflects this.


(If you're into deep thinking on game rules design: For some thoughts on this, I have started writing on Force Powers that affect others a few years ago. These don't set out the complete guidelines, but do clarify some of the relevant concepts. I am willing to put in the time to expand on that start, but so far, there has been little difficulty for STs to adjudicate Force effects affecting PCs and NPCs alike.)

[Brend]

- Since there is no force push power, force choke power, does it mean they will not exist or can the ST make those with NPCs?

Very short answer: This does not mean they do not exist.

The list of Force Powers in the rules is not the complete list of all powers available in the FWURG universe. Players are encouraged to propose new powers in the Game Design & Rule Discussion forum, as we did for Jaicen's Force power proprosal: Control Machine.

That said, the two examples you state as "missing powers" are actually available already. Powerful force pushing exists in several forms in the ranks of Telekinesis, and choking can be done through advanced ranks of Life Energy Manipulation (Rank 2).

STs can make NPCs with undocumented powers, and have done so on several occasions.

Furthermore, as described in the Force Powers rules: All Jedi have a limited array of basic force manipulation techniques. Simple pushing and pulling of small objects (i.e., the traditional "pulling lightsaber from belt" move, handled by the Energy attribute)), and slightly enhanced jumps (handled by the Fitness attribute) are part of the standard curriculum taught to Jedi. Take note that these standard abilities are very limited in scope.

If you want your character to have greater control over these abilities, investigate taking one or more ranks in Telekinesis for the pushing/pulling and Force Jump for jumping.

[Brend]

- Can I use force related things which are not a power with the energy stat ? Like if I want to force push a grenade out of the way flying towards me?

Short answer: Yes. But some uses are more logical than others.

The character Attributes in FWURG are based on a distinction between Body and Mind, and Controlling, Sensing and Altering. The exact impact of each attribute is detailed in the Attributes rules. I quote the description of the Energy attribute from there: "Energy is the ability to manipulate and control energies and for the Mind to Alter the world. It is used to Pull your lightsaber to your hand when it is out of reach, to summon lightning from your extremities to strike your opponent and to redirect the heat of a flame so that you can pass through the fire unharmed. Any check where you use the Force to manipulate your surroundings without physical effort is an Energy check. Energy checks can generally only be made by those who are trained in the Force."

So, in general, affecting the world without physical effort is a check based on the Energy attribute. However, several things where the Jedi enhances their own physique are based on Fitness or Vision, as well as other mental powers sometimes fitting better with Intuition. In case of doubt, you can fall back to the Attributes rules to see what seems fitting, and if all else fails: ask the ST what seems fitting!

(For your example case of the grenade see the previous answer for details on "default" force push, and the use of telekinesis.)

[Brend]

- Can I use these force related things with Jaicen's droid, or should it go out of Jaicen?

Short answer: As an ST I would say "It should go out of Jaicen".

Jaicen's droid, while part of his character in the narrative sense (that is, he and his droid together form the whole character in stories), the droid is still only a tool in the game universe. A very useful tool, but a tool nonetheless. Jaicen is the Jedi, and he is the one manipulating and using the Force. Therefore, I would say that Force-related things flow through Jaicen, and not his tools (which includes the droid).

[Brend]

- How does life force manipulation work, I saw Nathan use it on a bunny. While it is just stated that it masks your energy signature. (So it is basically the force power Seev Palpatine used). Nothing against Nathan or how he used it, just wondering.

Short answer: Rank 2 of Life Energy Manipulation allows his usage of the power in that way.

Since the question is about Life Energy Manipulation, I'll use that as the example for this answer.

All Force Powers in FWURG come with a latent effect called the Power. This is usually an effect that is continuously active, or has almost no restrictions in how many times it may be used. Next to the Power, each Force Power has 3 possible ranks. These ranks are called, rather straight-forward, Rank 1, Rank 2 and Rank 3.

Each of these ranks allows new uses of the theme of the Force Power. In the case of Life Energy Manipulation (paraphrased for brevity):

Rank 1 allows the use of the force power's Power to extend to his allies, a number of times per day equal to the number of ranks the Jedi has in the force power.

Rank 2 allows the Jedi to manipulate the body and mental state of someone in close proximity. The affected creature must be weak in relation to the Jedi, and the Jedi may only do this a number of times per day equal to the number of ranks the Jedi holds in the force power.

Rank 3 allows the Jedi wider application of Rank 1 and Rank 2. (And obviously gives more daily uses for the other powers.)

When you spent the Jedi Experience to acquire a Force Power, you get Rank 1 and the Power as a package. Every further increase only nets you an additional rank. Note that there are limits on what rank a Jedi may hold (see the Force Powers rules).

[Jhovall]

Hey Brend,

Thanks for your answers: My replies:

- Allright sounds decent.

- I know that you can apply for new powers, just wanted to know whether it was possible :).
Telekinesis is only applicable on objects according to the wiki, not on persons as I read it. Would a jedi be able to push people out of the way with it? And I did not read life energy manipulation that well apparently. See also the last question.

- So basically the force powers are a specialization of a general use of the force. You can do the same without the power, but not as good (And your check will be used with half force power?) . Can I call upon lightning to charge my lightsabers battery (for example) without taking the skill? Since you can use it with "The pulling lightsaber from belt", which is low-level telekinesis. Or should I just read this with, we will see this case by case.

- Allright, I agree on the 'energy' part, but not the physical part, so if I would get force jump I would apply it to the droid (since Jaicen can't jump). I think with level 3 force power the droid should also be able to do the energy part.

[Brend]

It is not entirely clear to what answers you are replying, I tried my best to match them to their questions.

- I know that you can apply for new powers, just wanted to know whether it was possible :).
Telekinesis is only applicable on objects according to the wiki, not on persons as I read it. Would a jedi be able to push people out of the way with it? And I did not read life energy manipulation that well apparently. See also the last question.

No, you cannot affect people with Telekinesis.

- So basically the force powers are a specialization of a general use of the force. You can do the same without the power, but not as good (And your check will be used with half force power?) . Can I call upon lightning to charge my lightsabers battery (for example) without taking the skill? Since you can use it with "The pulling lightsaber from belt", which is low-level telekinesis. Or should I just read this with, we will see this case by case.

The "low level" uses are effectively restricted to the two mentioned: weak force push/pull, and jump enhancements — these are the two powers trained in the Jedi training regime.

Using the force in a specific way requires training. So you cannot simply do things without the power. Jedi cannot call on lightning to charge your lightsaber battery, nor can someone trained in another tradition use force push without training. The two effects the Jedi can accomplish are due to the way they structure training entirely.

- Allright, I agree on the 'energy' part, but not the physical part, so if I would get force jump I would apply it to the droid (since Jaicen can't jump). I think with level 3 force power the droid should also be able to do the energy part.

I think that this is another discussion entirely. One about how the specifics of Control Machine would work out in the larger framework of how the Force affects the universe. So I suggest that if you want to discuss this situation, you open a separate thread for it. (It is also a discussion that is mostly academic until someone actually takes Control Machine Rank 3)

That being said, In my opinion Control Machine is already stretching the effects a Jedi can have on technology. Rank 3 clearly describes that you use the machine's sensors to perceive the world, and the machine's frame to manipulate the world: the Jedi controls the machine all its detail. I think that is already a very strong feat of mastery of the Force, and not something that should offer the Jedi a conduit for their force powers through. You control the machine, you do not possess it. For reasons already mentioned during the creation of the power this is a relevant distinction.

[Jhovall]

I was replying to your answers from top till bottom. Making remarks about your remarks from top till bottom. Thanks for your reply.

- Allright. what about droids ;). Are they objects according to the force?
- Okay. That makes the line more clear.
- You are right, that's another discussion. For the control 3. So effectively Jaicen will never be able to use force jump at the moment, but his droid can have -natural- enhanced jumping due to his mechanics (As described in his physical stats?) ?

[Brend]

On droids: As an ST I would be inclined to say that droids are objects. As such, you would be able to affect them with Telekinesis, given that your Jedi is powerful and trained enough to affect objects of the dimensions and mass of the droid in question.

On clarity: Thanks! Happy to clarify that.

On Control Machine rank 3: Jedi can go on missions to acquire special equipment, as alluded to in Equipment (fourth paragraph). While few players have actually had their characters go on such missions, I see no reason not to find some method of allowing Jaicen's attuned droid to make seriously cool jumps — I'd just rather seek the solution in a direction that is not the Force.

[Jhovall]

Hmm, The special equipment part sounds like a good idea. I'd like to procure another DEM crystal one time to implement in a ship or something one day :). Or other possibilities to research the DEM crystals.

[Brend]

Keep in mind that you need to clear your plans OOCly first, especially given that Control Machine only allows you to be attuned to a single machine, and that there must already be some bond between Jedi and machine (due to the power really being somewhat of a narrative hack).

I suggest a focus on upgrading TG-100 instead of getting more controllable machines. The latter is much harder to justify than the former ^_^