Fwurg

[Brend]

Is it possible to do a Mind Trick without bystanders observing it?

Stuiter and I ran across this situation in her visit to Mirda, and while I ruled that it worked there, I think it might be good to have a more clear idea of what is possible.

For example, can you Mind Trick without the traditional hand-wave?

Is it possible to use another gesture?

Do you need to speak, or can you combine the mind trick with other communication forms, such as over a radio or through telepathy?

What do you think?

[Elmer]

for sake of traditionally awesomeness, I say that you need the hand wave.

Although I can live with other hand gestures. Pointing, twirling, grabbing, as long as it is a relative slow movement, like the hand wave.

For bystanders, it is a matter of how intelligent they are and how much attention they pay I think. In episode 1, Watto (the guy from the shop on tatooine, Anakins owner) sees that Qui-gon is doing something, but he has no idea what and made just a wild guess: "What, you think you are some kind of jedi, waving your hand around like that."

[Mercury]

I think you need to make a traditional hand wave and state specifically what the other person must do, with a voice, not telepathy. (It seems to me talking in someone's head is mutually exclusive with messing around in said head). I do agree other hand (or claw or tentacle or whatever) motions would work if they are similarly limited as Elmer stated.

[Evermourne]

I do not know if the hand is the gesture to go with but it is clear something must be there to be "noticed". It gives the player a harder DC an doing what he/she wants instead of just trying something willy nilly on everyone because there is no negative thing to it. Meaning that a hand wave can indeed be noticed and be frowned upon (lost reputation with your target).

Making it the traditional hand motion does make it easier for everyone to exactly know how it looks like because we have the movie reference and therefore I feel it gives players a good chance to mask they wave with a nice story. for example

The Jedi tries to sell his new found junk to the first person who passes him. "Well hello sir, look at these wares! *does the hand wave and fluently flows the hand movement towards the items* . You really need to buy this!"

Masked but effective. It will be a fun outlet for creative solutions. But any kind of hand gesture can do that.

[Brend]

Meaning that a hand wave can indeed be noticed and be frowned upon (lost reputation with your target).

That would defeat the purpose of the Mind Trick, right? If the target can just notice the trick by seeing you wave your hand, they would always know that you are mind tricking them... I would say that the target doesn't notice the trick if it succeeds.

Otherwise the "● Level 1: The Jedi can make a subject forget they ever saw the Jedi. If the Jedi did something important in their presence, they remember someone doing it, but they do not remember it was the Jedi. Using this power requires an opposed check. You can use this power a number of times per day equal to the number of ranks in this force power. " is utterly useless...

But overall, I'm a fan of having the handwave thingy in there, somehow. Or at least some gesture. And we'll leave the mindtrick+telepathy out until someone becomes a Jedi master and starts combining those two in a master technique.