Fwurg

[Mercury]

Holonet Transference

Description: Enables the transferring of ownership over existing holonet relays
Research Cost: 2000
Research Time: 4
Prerequisites: Holonet Universal Base Code Analysis, Compositional Pattern Engineering
Tags: Economic, Holonet

By developing generic methods of retrofitting existing hardware to work with different systems, it becomes possible to take possession of existing holonet relays

With this technology, you can take ownership of existing Holonet Relays which are sold to you by other worlds. The other world need not have this technology - only the buying world must have it.

To take ownership of an existing holonet station, you must pay 100 for every 500 of the station (or fraction thereof). Ownership is not completed until this cost is paid.

((OOC: This is a proposal for a new technology. What do people think?))

[Brend]

What's with the OOC tag in an OOC forum? Speak up man, I can't hear you talking to yourself... :P (More serious, you can use the [doc] tag to wrap up the tech as a nice block.)

Notes on the proposal:

• Compositional Pattern Engineering is already a prerequisite of Holonet Universal Base Code Analysis so it is already included as a transitive requirement... Not really an issue, but something we haven't done before, and I am very curious as to why this is done.
• There's no duration noted for the actual transference process. If this is about retrofitting hardware to work with your own systems, it might be useful to require a duration of at least N . This prevents mona lisa buyouts, and also makes the whole process seem to have a bit more weight. Maybe a minimum duration of 4 or so?
• You write this technology as if holonet stations can have more than 500 of capacity... However, the whole thing that you proposed and that was discussed in Improved method for noting Holonet Relay Construction has never been turned into a rules change proposal (and therefore has never been made into a rules change). As such, every single holonet stations will either be a base, duplex or upgrade station, and have exactly 500 (:capacity). This also means that under the current rules, this technology allows you to sell part of your holonet stations in a sector while retaining another part. (Something that is not possible in the proposed new system with the current wording of this technology.)

Note on a more conceptual level: I think that this technology opens up a situation that is rather new, and has been avoided so far. While I think that the game has matured enough to allow trading of such assets, I do think that we should think carefully about the repurcussions of this. I would very much like for this technology to be introduced together with a technology that allows Trade Fleets to be traded, so we have some measure of symmetry in the trading options. I'm sure there are arguments to be made for and against allowing the trading of trade fleets, but I think most will mirror the trading of holonet stations.

[Dragonmaster352]

Personally I am not sure transferring ownership of holonet relay stations or trade fleets should require a technology.

Should it cost something? Probably. The whole bureaucratic process and the familiarization with different tech, learning the quirks of the machines and stuff requires spending resources. But actually transferring the ownership is not something of actual difficulty.

I think this should be handled similarly to the technology transfer cost and not use a technology.

[Brend]

The original reason that trade fleets and holonet relays could not be traded is that that would be the same as "saving" resources: you start building a trade fleet with and only later sell it on to someone else. That form of saving is also why currently trade fleets can not be "massaged" (that is, split, merged, etc.), since that will also greatly increases the utility of saving your as trade fleets.

And ease of saving of or (:holonet) would make it more difficult for small and new economies to get a hold of those resources since the producers can simply save them for later, instead of having to either sell them now or lose them forever.

[Dragonmaster352]

Then perhaps a period after the last upgrade/creation that the trade fleet or holonet relay station can't be traded? say 25 ?

Also I don't agree the trading options for holonet relay stations needs to be symmetrical with trade fleets. After all you pay upkeep for holonet relay stations but not for trade fleets and you can only trade based goods with holonet relays. The higher capacity doesn't compensate for that, in my opinion.

Based on the lack of interest in , likely because they are inferior to trade fleets, I don't think there will be any change in the difficulty small, new economies can get them. Mainly because they won't WANT them. The only world that actually wants is the IO, compared to the much higher demand for .

I think just having holonet relay stations be trade-able isn't that bad. In fact, I think it will put them an a bit more equal footing with trade fleets.

[Brend]

Trade fleets most certainly do require upkeep: they require dedicated zones, which is also a form of upkeep.

I think the lack of interest in is mainly due to the fact that they only work for based goods, and there are very few worlds that want to ship only information based goods. If a world already has a trade fleet, the cost/benefit calculation for chosing between trade fleets and holonet turns out differently then if they start from scratch. Next to that there is massive overproduction of right now, which is pushing the price of MTCFs down, which in turn creates "virtual demand" since they are cheap.

Claiming that the lower demand for is because they are inferior sidesteps the actual reason s are more in demand: they can ship other stuff as well. Comparing the demand for and without normalisation for the fact that only transports -based goods is -- which is only a sixth of the total amount of products -- is misleading.


In my opinion the holonet stations are not worse of than trade fleets. I actually think they are slightly better in terms of how they can be used and the flexibility to provide. They do give nicer cargo capacities, and it is possible to use a single stations to deliver to multiple people at the same time, so you can better apply those capacities.

Anyway, I have put forward my opinion on the tech. So I'll wait and see what others feel about it. I do not think this is the place for a big holonet-vs-tradefleet debate ^_^

[Dragonmaster352]

I do not think this is the place for a big holonet-vs-tradefleet debate ^_^

Agreed.

As I believe my opinion has been stated as well, I'll leave this to mercury to decide if he wants to keep with a tech or propose a rules change.

[Elmer]

I think that trading of stuff like holo-net and tradefleets is a nice addition. But given the 'no saving' gimmick of the game, I believe a special project is in order. (Just like mass migration). The project then has a cost per capacity.

Given the nature of trade fleets, I also think it is fitting when the trade fleet looses a percentage of their capacity as a result from refitting everything.