Fwurg

[Dragonmaster352]

As discussed earlier I am now going to start proposing techs for my Transcendency plan.

I'm going to do one or two at a time for my own sanity. So I won't have to type out and come up with everything at once. I'll work my way up, finishing with the Transcendence Project. I would like to know if the enabling techs should just be fluff techs or if they should have actual effects? As I imagine some of them to be expensive.

That said here's number one. :)

Hybrid Processing Technology

Modern processors use either optical signals or electrical signals to operate. Normally these two systems are mutually exclusive due to the signals interfering with one another. By making adjustments in the molecular structure of the processor crystals this interference is eliminated, allowing the use of both systems in a single crystal. This results in much higher processing speeds.

Cost: ??? , 10

Effect: ??? (perhaps something with ?)

Thoughts?

[Brend]

I have some thoughts, but they're not really about this technology. My thoughts are more about how I would approach the creation of this tech tree.

I'm going to do one or two at a time for my own sanity. So I won't have to type out and come up with everything at once. I'll work my way up, finishing with the Transcendence Project. I would like to know if the enabling techs should just be fluff techs or if they should have actual effects? As I imagine some of them to be expensive.

Unless you already have a very good idea of the shape and content of the tech tree, I propose to start work on the other side: instead of working your way up, work your way down. You know where you want to end, so this design process is about creating a set of technologies bridging the gap between the Transcendence project and the currently available techs. Using this inverted approach allows you to work in a more structured way: you can work out what conditions are necessary and which hurdles are in the way for the Transcendence project to be startable. (And some of these hurdles were even discusses in our previous discussion ^_^)

Personally I have no problem with fluff only techs, we even have a few already. But having technologies give actual benefits in some form makes them so much more cool! So, I would suggest aiming for having all technologies provide some kind of benefit (or at least have every expensive tech give some benefit). With FWURG's rules working on a high level of abstraction, it might be difficult to think up fitting benefits for technologies. But by using the top-down approach you know what obstacle a tech is trying to remove, which incidentally also gives a good hint about what kind of effect the tech could give.

I'm willing to discuss/brainstorm/co-design the tech tree if you want help. You know how to reach me.

[Dragonmaster352]

Ok, here's the Transcendence Project.

Transcendence Project

By injecting a special liquid crystal into the brain of a biological person, it is possible to turn that person into an artificial intelligence. One of the largest advantages of this is that the person becomes immortal. Downsides include the inability to reproduce and they can no longer use the Force.

A number of your population, that is a multitude of 0.1, is converted into a new race. This new race gains the Artificial Intelligence special and must conform to the limitations this places on the race. If you already have a Jedi, you may choose to not have them transcend. If you do choose to transcend them they will no longer be Jedi.

Prerequisites: Technological Emancipation Systems

Cost: 15000 + 1000 per 0.1

Since Brend, Mercury and me couldn't really figure out how much a special would cost we thought we should discuss this with everyone. Specials are meant to be limited and the different effects make pricing difficult. So we would like to hear your thoughts on this :).

Also I have probably opened a can of worms by making the direct connection between biology and the Force, so opinions on that and if a Jedi could lose the Force this way.

EDIT: Added the new ideas and costs. Also tech name.

[Brend]

My idea would be to not have a project to convert 0.1 as a single shot, but instead to determine a number of to transform, and pay per 0.1 . That would make a total cost = (startup cost + X * cost per 0.1 ).

This way, with a high startup cost, we don't get the "Can't technically grow, but can grow with 0.1 every turn."

I haven't the foggiest what the cost should be though :)

[Elmer]

In the past we always have linked the force to biology. The details are always left behind, but it is kinda a force thing that Jedi must be biological. (I purposely ignore tales about force beings since we don't use those.)

Overall the tech looks cool and decent to me. (The Astrians might become the first race to fully understand the IO XD)

Brend: I don't follow your point of: "Can't technically grow, but can grow with 0.1 every turn." I don't really see the technological difference between doing the tech 10 times in a row, or do it 1 time and get 10 times the population, time and cost.

[Brend]

Brend: I don't follow your point of: "Can't technically grow, but can grow with 0.1 every turn." I don't really see the technological difference between doing the tech 10 times in a row, or do it 1 time and get 10 times the population, time and cost.

That was exactly my point ^_^

Because as it stands there is no difference between "doing the tech 10 times in a row, or do it 1 time and get 10 times the population" I suggest that it works not on a single 0.1 , but on a predetermined amount, just like the migration projects. That way, we can have part of the cost depend on the amount of population, and part of the cost as a static cost that is incurred regardless of the amount. This makes it less of "We'll do another run" tech, and more of a "This is the one moment for transformation"

We could even add a cooldown in the same way the migration techs have one.

[Fedor]

My opinion on the economic cost of the transcendance project is that it could be low, as the Artificial Intelligence special has an economic cost rather than value to me, trading holonet bonuses for the capability to have population growth.
However for the specialness of the moment maybe it should cost more than just 500 , the in character value being great, however I don't see it being worth much economic value.

[Brend]

After a short discussion, we think that the prices of the end project and tech should be in the order of:

• Technology: 10000
• Project: 15000 + 1000 per 0.1

Converting 1.0 would make the project costs 25000 . A yet to be determined amount of these costs should be in goods (such as , , and possibly a special good).

We are currently thinking that the project works on a System scale and can be repeated at a later time, possibly with a cooldown like migration.

[Dragonmaster352]

And here's the tech for the Transcendence Project.

Technological Emancipation Systems

For a long time cybernetics have been used to replace lost limbs and organs, more recently cybernetics have been used to improve health, longevity and physical performance. However, all these cyborgs still rely heavily on organic components in order to live and are subject to natural evolution, which is slow compared to the progression of technology. By combining breakthroughs from several advanced technologies it becomes possible to bridge the gap between biology and technology by turning a "natural intelligence" into an "Artificial Intelligence".

Unlocks the Transcendence Project special project.

Cost: 10000 and 10

Prerequisites: (the other techs from the tech tree)

I had this idea that some of the required techs would have a pre-required tech of their own while others are on their own. Also, I thought this name for the tech was cooler then Biomemetic technology.

[Brend]

Image created during out-of-band discussion:



Anything without parenthesis is an existing technology.


We plan on tackling some of the Re(design|placement) of NCC and Prefab and Proposal: space habitat population and incorporation ideas in this tech tree.

Further notes:
Thematical prereqs for transcendence tech: Crystal Brains and Virtual Environments.

We think three branches of knowledge are needed:

1. Virtual Environment (cyan):
   • Round-trip-time
   • Visualisation
   • Agents / Virtual Intelligence / Remote presence
2. Crystal Brain (blue):
   • Crystalurgy
   • Brain Computer Interface?
   • Processing power
3. Biologisch (yellow):
   • Brain Computer Interface?
   • Mental 'suspension', temporarily suspend consciousness for introspection

[Dragonmaster352]

Just an idea really. Possibly a better one will come. It's been a while so I thought: just start spamming ideas, see what sticks.

p5: brain computer interface

Neural pattern decoding

The brain of a sentient being is extremely complex to track in a way that can be used. By measuring exactly which neurons are firing at a specific thought running this pattern through a sophisticated program it becomes possible to interpret the meaning of certain thoughts. Doing these measurements in real time and combining them with audio and visual feedback a direct interface between a persons brain and a computer can be created. Allowing for a more efficient way to control the computer.

Effect: To be discussed

Allows: p2, p6

Cost: To be discussed (probably dependant on the effect)

Thoughts?

[Brend]

I suggest that you start with the effects of the technology, instead of the fluff. Fluff is easy, effects not so much.

That said, the fluff you describe here seems very specific. Did you have a specific use for this technology in mind (no pun intended)?

[Dragonmaster352]

I was thinking something along the lines of better computer interfaces, improving productivity or communication.

Something like a small productivity upgrade, like +10, to zones because of better automation. I think cost would be based on the amount of zones. Possibly a lower cost for planets without an atmosphere, as it stands to reason such sites are more extensively automated.

Other possibilities are a Defence zone or army upgrade. I'll try to work it out a bit further.

[Dragonmaster352]

After some thinking I thought it might make more sense to make p5 a basic tech, with a variety of follow up techs including p2 and p6. These can be both military and economic. This would make sense IC because a brain computer interface could be used anywhere people use computers, which are used nearly everywhere.

It also makes it a bit easier in terms of effect for p5, as the effect will now be to unlock other techs.

Thoughts on this idea?

[Brend]

You mean "fundamental" tech, right?

I have no direct problem with this, but we should still find something of an effect for the fundamental tech. Because only being a speed-bump makes p5 a sad tech... Maybe we should have a look at the theme of fundamental tech effects and see if there's a gap in there somewhere.

[Dragonmaster352]

Renewed idea for p5. First change to f4 make it a fundamental tech.

Neural Computer Interface

For a very long time interacting with computers has been done through a combination of mostly mechanical inputs and audiovisual outputs. Though generally these methods have proven very effective, they have issues with mobility and use while mobile. There are also minor latency and reactionary issues. By monitoring neural activity in the users brain and decoding the meaning of the observed signals commands can be given to the computer. It takes some time to master inputting commands into a computer this way. Reversely, by stimulating certain parts of the users brain the computer can output signals to the user. This allows for all the users senses to be used, creating a much more immersive experience. The user will still be able to move and observe their surroundings while using this system, the signals from the interface are dulled compared to real sensations.

Effect: Allows upgrading of Entertainment Augmentation Zone; prerequisite for further research

Allows: p2, p6

Cost: 500

The basic idea is that it's a new method to interface with computers, it's not significantly better then using a keyboard and mouse. It does have some virtual reality aspects, though these could be stripped out and put into a later tech.

Thoughts?