Fwurg

[Dragonmaster352]

I had a few ideas regarding military technologies and wanted to know what you guys think of it.

Boarding Tactics

applies to: armies attached to fleets

An army has extensive training in ship to ship combat, there for giving an additional boost on the offence. In turn their knowledge also allows them to better defend against enemy boarders by knowing their strategy.

effect: +1 on the inner offence and defence ring of a fleet in addition to their normal bonus

cost: 5 , 1500

and then we have...

Ship based production

Research into large scale, compact production methods allow for the construction of specialised production vessels that can be added to military fleets. Enables Support ship Fleet upgrade.

cost: ?

Support ship Fleet upgrade

Pre-requirement: Ship based production

Adds support vessels to a fleet to maintain operations with little to no supply line.

effect: Allows fleet to remain active (defensive or combat-ready) if the supply line is blocked and reduces distance related maintenance costs by 100%

cost: 5 , 200 , 200 , 1000

Now to explain a few things.

Boarding tactics: the increased inner rings are based on the fact that troops are listed in the inner attack ring for the rings of defence. In fleet to fleet combat this implies boarding.

Ship based production: I really have no idea what the cost for this should be.

Support ship fleet upgrade: there are capital ships in the cost to provide an escort for the support vessels, as these ships are reserved for guarding they do not add to the fleets combat stats. This upgrade doesn't reduce the maintenance to 0 but rather a combat-ready fleet would require 20 / and a defensive fleet 10 / . Possibly the upgrade cost should go up.

[Elmer]

because I had some troubles reading the techs, I have given them a better lay-out

Boarding Tactics

applies to: armies attached to fleets

An army has extensive training in ship to ship combat, there for giving an additional boost on the offence. In turn their knowledge also allows them to better defend against enemy boarders by knowing their strategy.

effect: +1 on the inner offence and defence ring of a fleet in addition to their normal bonus

cost: 5 , 1500

Ship based production

Research into large scale, compact production methods allow for the construction of specialised production vessels that can be added to military fleets. Enables Support ship Fleet upgrade.

cost: ?

Support ship Fleet upgrade

Pre-requirement: Ship based production

Adds support vessels to a fleet to maintain operations with little to no supply line.

effect: Allows fleet to remain active (defensive or combat-ready) if the supply line is blocked and reduces distance related maintenance costs by 100%

cost: 5 , 200 , 200 , 1000

[Dragonmaster352]

Didn't know how to do that
thanks :)

[Chriz]

I think boarding tactics is a nice tech idea. Since it gives 2 dots it might be more expensive, maybe 2500 ?

The distance related maintenance cost is the balancing factor for military fleets. I don't think you can completely remove it with a tech. If you can it will be a very expensive tech.

[Brend]

Ship based production & Support ship Fleet upgrade

I'm sorry: no, this is not going to happen.

As Chriz already pointed out, the high upkeep costs of the fleets is the main balancing factor of the military system. War is supposed to be expensive, forcing you to think of other options before sending in the fleets.

You could envision a technology that used other means to lower the upkeep: the main factor is distance. For example: the use of allied Fleet Zones as intermediate supply points. This would require much more thinking (and its own thread ^_^).

Boarding Tactics

While I like the theme this technology seems to be a cheap 'get around the upgrade limit' tech without actually stating that it does so. Furthermore, a fleet upgrade that gives the same amount of dots costs: 500 and 200 . An army costs 2000 and upkeep of 20 / . Your proposal costs 1500 , roughly the same as an upgrade.

What you propose circumvents the upgrade limit by being available only if an army is attached. However, this is roughly the same as a free upgrade: the army's upkeep is paying for the dots the army itself provides, so that can't be seen as a balancing factor. And technologies need only be researched once, after that they can be freely shared if you want.

So in effect, this technology gives a virtually free 2 dots on the inner rings for any fleet that's actually used in combat (because everyone will want to attach an army to their fleet if this technology is available).

I would rather see something like this implement as a Special Manoeuvre in one of the formations: this might fit well in the Standard Formation. Mercury and me agreed that unlocking a special manoeuvre for a fleet would require upgrading the fleet with equipment that allowed the manoeuvre (for an example see the Hyperspace Arrival Salvo manoeuvre).

In this case, you would have to design three things:

1. a technology that makes this possible (preferably behind some foundation tech. as all other technologies are -- either an existing one or a new one),
2. a fleet upgrade that unlocks the maneouvre for that fleet,
3. and the manoeuvre itself.

PS. As to the foundation tech: In the past, my senator has ordered an analysis of the different military disciplines within the Union (she pushed 1000 toward this goal already). This might give rise to a nice foundation technology, maybe something like 'Military Discipline Analysis'?

[Dragonmaster352]

Ship based production & Support ship Fleet upgrade

I'm sorry: no, this is not going to happen.

As Chriz already pointed out, the high upkeep costs of the fleets is the main balancing factor of the military system. War is supposed to be expensive, forcing you to think of other options before sending in the fleets.

You could envision a technology that used other means to lower the upkeep: the main factor is distance. For example: the use of allied Fleet Zones as intermediate supply points. This would require much more thinking (and its own thread ^_^).

Fair enough, I take it reducing upkeep isn't a problem in and of itself. I would like to know what you think of the possibility of maintaining fleet operations for a limited time when the supply line is cut. Also what does the upkeep do exactly IC, what is it. food? ammo? fuel? it will help think of new things.

Boarding Tactics

While I like the theme this technology seems to be a cheap 'get around the upgrade limit' tech without actually stating that it does so. Furthermore, a fleet upgrade that gives the same amount of dots costs: 500 and 200 . An army costs 2000 and upkeep of 20 / . Your proposal costs 1500 , roughly the same as an upgrade.

What you propose circumvents the upgrade limit by being available only if an army is attached. However, this is roughly the same as a free upgrade: the army's upkeep is paying for the dots the army itself provides, so that can't be seen as a balancing factor. And technologies need only be researched once, after that they can be freely shared if you want.

So in effect, this technology gives a virtually free 2 dots on the inner rings for any fleet that's actually used in combat (because everyone will want to attach an army to their fleet if this technology is available).

I would rather see something like this implement as a Special Manoeuvre in one of the formations: this might fit well in the Standard Formation. Mercury and me agreed that unlocking a special manoeuvre for a fleet would require upgrading the fleet with equipment that allowed the manoeuvre (for an example see the Hyperspace Arrival Salvo manoeuvre).

In this case, you would have to design three things:

1. a technology that makes this possible (preferably behind some foundation tech. as all other technologies are -- either an existing one or a new one),
2. a fleet upgrade that unlocks the maneouvre for that fleet,
3. and the manoeuvre itself.

PS. As to the foundation tech: In the past, my senator has ordered an analysis of the different military disciplines within the Union (she pushed 1000 toward this goal already). This might give rise to a nice foundation technology, maybe something like 'Military Discipline Analysis'?

Personally I do not see any problem in using technology for bypassing such limits, but since I don't make the rules I will not come up with similar ideas.

I will see what I can think of with the suggestion you made.

[Brend]

Personally I do not see any problem in using technology for bypassing such limits, but since I don't make the rules I will not come up with similar ideas.

I didn't make myself clear... I have no problem with technologies bypassing limits (that's what technologies are for) -- I have a problem with the implementation. It's a careful balance: if the tech is cheaper than an upgrade, everyone will want to take the tech (which is an indication that is too good); if the tech is more expenseive than an upgrade, no-one will want the tech...

A tech that just outrights increases the limit is fine (but will be costly; and the price of the upgrade itself should be increased as well). So I look forward to your new ideas ^_^

[Elmer]

Boarding Tactics seems indeed more to be a special manoeuvre than an upgrade tech. So I am in favour of making this tech something to unlock the boarding manoeuvre.

Also what does the upkeep do exactly IC, what is it. food? ammo? fuel? it will help think of new things.

The only correct answer to this is: Yes
Every faction will have their own way of combat, so it will be to limiting to specify the supplies, as every faction have their own types of supplies. The upkeep is for maintaining the supplies the fleet need to stay operational. This will mostly come down to food, fuel and ammo, but if your fleet only exists of droids, then there would be no food needed, and if your ships are made of degrading gadolinium, then your supply would likely contain some fresh gadolinium to repair the degraded hulls of the ships.

Fair enough, I take it reducing upkeep isn't a problem in and of itself. I would like to know what you think of the possibility of maintaining fleet operations for a limited time when the supply line is cut.

I think this tech can be viable. It will still be rather expensive, but this tech does not brake the balance (much). It also creates some nice counterstrike options when your fleet is in enemy territory.

based on the supply costs of a fleet in enemy territory: distance 5 , 3 turns without supply (to gave a decent 'rescue the supply' action)

the tech might be:

distributed support fleet

This tech will allow you to upgrade your military fleet with distributed support fleets. Thanks to well planned distribution of the supplies and training in rationing the fleet can hold on a while longer while it has no support from its support fleet anymore.

tech cost: 3060 + 5

Fleet upgrade cost: 3200 + 400

[Mercury]

Reading through all this, I feel a tad under-qualified to make a judgement on this topic. That said, most of what Brend has explained makes sense to me. How do we proceed from here to make Dragonmaster352's idea's a reality?

[Brend]

I'm interested in what problems Dragonmaster352 is trying to tackle.

Without knowing that, I can't really offer any advice.