Non Jedi combat
Brend
Stuiter
Mercury
Elmer
Open in chat • 5 posts (analysis)
• Page 1 of 1
Non Jedi combat
Stuiter » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:21 am
Combat is now only described for jedi and the base is their force level.
Where do normal soldier/bodyguards get their strength from?
With skills you could take swordsmanship etc.
But there could also by non-jedi styles, like with martial arts have karate, judo or two-swords style or sniper style.
The bonuses might be lower, but could it be trained/specialized to get higher values so one could rival jedi, like Bobo Fett.
As seen in the red troop mission, you get very low combat values.
Also it is not clear what normal weapons do, attack/defend on which ring.
I think normal weapons should also have a small combat bonus like +1.
There should be a table with an overview on various weapons.
Where do normal soldier/bodyguards get their strength from?
With skills you could take swordsmanship etc.
But there could also by non-jedi styles, like with martial arts have karate, judo or two-swords style or sniper style.
The bonuses might be lower, but could it be trained/specialized to get higher values so one could rival jedi, like Bobo Fett.
As seen in the red troop mission, you get very low combat values.
Also it is not clear what normal weapons do, attack/defend on which ring.
I think normal weapons should also have a small combat bonus like +1.
There should be a table with an overview on various weapons.
Mercury » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:59 pm
-
Mercury - Storyteller
In designing the Jedi combat rules, the basis of the system was designed around the central concept of a Jedi and a Sith facing off with lightsabers. For this reason, the combat system uses no hitpoints (which are silly with lightsabers that can cut off multiple limbs in a single blow), but rather stacks advantage and disadvantage until the kill is made, as you would expect in an interesting duel.
All combat rules follow from this basis, which is why there are no current written rules on blasters, rocket launchers, laser cannons, grenades, flamethrowers, sniper rifles, body armour, shields, vehicles, etc. All of these were considered less relevant compared to the basic model of two force users facing off with lightsabers.
The Force Level actually accounts into the setting really well. Jedi have a HUGE advantage with their Force level over, say, stormtroopers or attack droids, which do not have a Force Level. As a result, even a douzen stormtroopers, in the current rules, are unlikely to be able to take down a Jedi. This is not a mistake: Jedi are supposed to be able to kick their butts without breaking a sweat.
It gets worse for regular folk too: weak individuals are Wounded if their defences are beaten on just one ring, while somewhat stronger individuals are Injured on one ring and Wounded on two. All Force Sensitive individuals require three rings to Wound and two to Injure however.
That being said, I did in fact take into account that there are other non-Jedi who do pose a challenge to the Jedi. Boba Fett is an excellent example.
The Force, being a universal energy, is not the exclusive domain of the Jedi, nor is it exclusive to the Sith. Other organisations and individuals have access to the Force and will thus have a Force Level. Skilled individuals like Boba Fett have a Force Level (despite not being a Jedi) and certain groups and organisations, like say, the Ultramarines employ individuals who qualify as having a Force Level.
Since the Jedi (and the Sith) have a deeper relationship to the Force then other organisations, they advance more quickly and can reach higher levels, but extra special individual like Boba Fett might still reach, eventually, a high force level and thus pose a significant threat to a Jedi Padawan, even if a Jedi Master like Obi-wan would be able to handle him.
Thus, non-Jedi can and do pose a threat to the Jedi, but are still at a disadvantage regardless.
Regarding normal weapons, I do agree there needs to be more clarity about what rings of attack they have and a simple list would be good. However, the fact remains, such weapons are not the focus of the combat rules so I do not expect there to be long equipment lists with non-saber weapons, let alone options for them.
In reality, a rifle is better than a sword no matter how you slice it. Rifles can fire more shots per second then you can make swings with a sword, rifles can hit targets at a distance that is inconceivable with a sword and with a rifle you can stay in cover while a sword requires you have enough freedom to swing which in turn exposes you to your enemy.
However, regular sword fighters cannot dodge and deflect bullets with ease as Jedi can. This made the gun vs lightsaber battle one of particular concern to me, as implementing a "deflect blaster bolts" ability into the system was problematic at best. The current "one ring" attack for blasters resolves this very elegantly as it makes Jedi mostly immune but if they are distracted by other attacks they can still be hit.
Now, as for bonuses on certain weapons, I deliberately chose not to add these: in our Jedi system, we do not use money to buy equipment and characters do not amass wealth, which I believe would be contrary to Jedi customs and fluff. As such, if weapons had bonuses, people would take a set of various weapons with the maximum bonus to enhance on their lightsabers. In reality, few Jedi also wield a flamethrower on the side, for example.
That said, I am not saying that like lightsabers, there could not be weapons (or armour for that matter) that offer bonuses on certain attacks / defences. However, these would be special items, not mass produced and not available to most individuals. Boba Fett might have special Mandalorian armour, for example, but most Jedi would not have access to this (or everyone would use it all the time).
Finally, concerning ways for non-Jedi to advance further:
Combat Styles are not limited to lightsabers. You could have a combat style focussed on blasters, martial arts, regular swords, rocket launchers, etc. Likewise, some individuals (example: Nightsisters of Dathomir) may even have access to Force Powers despite not being Jedi.
I'll make up a first draft of a list for basic regular weapons somewhere in the next week or so.
All combat rules follow from this basis, which is why there are no current written rules on blasters, rocket launchers, laser cannons, grenades, flamethrowers, sniper rifles, body armour, shields, vehicles, etc. All of these were considered less relevant compared to the basic model of two force users facing off with lightsabers.
The Force Level actually accounts into the setting really well. Jedi have a HUGE advantage with their Force level over, say, stormtroopers or attack droids, which do not have a Force Level. As a result, even a douzen stormtroopers, in the current rules, are unlikely to be able to take down a Jedi. This is not a mistake: Jedi are supposed to be able to kick their butts without breaking a sweat.
It gets worse for regular folk too: weak individuals are Wounded if their defences are beaten on just one ring, while somewhat stronger individuals are Injured on one ring and Wounded on two. All Force Sensitive individuals require three rings to Wound and two to Injure however.
That being said, I did in fact take into account that there are other non-Jedi who do pose a challenge to the Jedi. Boba Fett is an excellent example.
The Force, being a universal energy, is not the exclusive domain of the Jedi, nor is it exclusive to the Sith. Other organisations and individuals have access to the Force and will thus have a Force Level. Skilled individuals like Boba Fett have a Force Level (despite not being a Jedi) and certain groups and organisations, like say, the Ultramarines employ individuals who qualify as having a Force Level.
Since the Jedi (and the Sith) have a deeper relationship to the Force then other organisations, they advance more quickly and can reach higher levels, but extra special individual like Boba Fett might still reach, eventually, a high force level and thus pose a significant threat to a Jedi Padawan, even if a Jedi Master like Obi-wan would be able to handle him.
Thus, non-Jedi can and do pose a threat to the Jedi, but are still at a disadvantage regardless.
Regarding normal weapons, I do agree there needs to be more clarity about what rings of attack they have and a simple list would be good. However, the fact remains, such weapons are not the focus of the combat rules so I do not expect there to be long equipment lists with non-saber weapons, let alone options for them.
In reality, a rifle is better than a sword no matter how you slice it. Rifles can fire more shots per second then you can make swings with a sword, rifles can hit targets at a distance that is inconceivable with a sword and with a rifle you can stay in cover while a sword requires you have enough freedom to swing which in turn exposes you to your enemy.
However, regular sword fighters cannot dodge and deflect bullets with ease as Jedi can. This made the gun vs lightsaber battle one of particular concern to me, as implementing a "deflect blaster bolts" ability into the system was problematic at best. The current "one ring" attack for blasters resolves this very elegantly as it makes Jedi mostly immune but if they are distracted by other attacks they can still be hit.
Now, as for bonuses on certain weapons, I deliberately chose not to add these: in our Jedi system, we do not use money to buy equipment and characters do not amass wealth, which I believe would be contrary to Jedi customs and fluff. As such, if weapons had bonuses, people would take a set of various weapons with the maximum bonus to enhance on their lightsabers. In reality, few Jedi also wield a flamethrower on the side, for example.
That said, I am not saying that like lightsabers, there could not be weapons (or armour for that matter) that offer bonuses on certain attacks / defences. However, these would be special items, not mass produced and not available to most individuals. Boba Fett might have special Mandalorian armour, for example, but most Jedi would not have access to this (or everyone would use it all the time).
Finally, concerning ways for non-Jedi to advance further:
Combat Styles are not limited to lightsabers. You could have a combat style focussed on blasters, martial arts, regular swords, rocket launchers, etc. Likewise, some individuals (example: Nightsisters of Dathomir) may even have access to Force Powers despite not being Jedi.
I'll make up a first draft of a list for basic regular weapons somewhere in the next week or so.
Elmer » Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:48 pm
Interesting, I didn't realised this yet, but actually it makes quite sense :)
A small point:
Here you make an example which relate to something out of the forum, wiki and movies. You have to dig deeper into the star wars setting to know these girls. Boba Fett is not a problem because everybody knows him, but if a person does not watch the clone wars series, he or she will probably not know the Nightsisters of Dathomir, and they do not exist yet in our galaxy. Although the example is clear so I don't think it won't be a problem within this example, I prefer if you stick to the common knowledge and on this wiki accessible items for examples. In this way there will be no discussion about what the example is. (Just like the time when you used the paaerduag as an example in the builder, while they didn't existed in our galaxy yet.)
A small point:
some individuals (example: Nightsisters of Dathomir) may even have access to Force Powers despite not being Jedi.
Here you make an example which relate to something out of the forum, wiki and movies. You have to dig deeper into the star wars setting to know these girls. Boba Fett is not a problem because everybody knows him, but if a person does not watch the clone wars series, he or she will probably not know the Nightsisters of Dathomir, and they do not exist yet in our galaxy. Although the example is clear so I don't think it won't be a problem within this example, I prefer if you stick to the common knowledge and on this wiki accessible items for examples. In this way there will be no discussion about what the example is. (Just like the time when you used the paaerduag as an example in the builder, while they didn't existed in our galaxy yet.)
Brend » Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:32 pm
Elmer wrote:Interesting, I didn't realised this yet, but actually it makes quite sense :)
A small point:some individuals (example: Nightsisters of Dathomir) may even have access to Force Powers despite not being Jedi.
Here you make an example which relate to something out of the forum, wiki and movies. You have to dig deeper into the star wars setting to know these girls. Boba Fett is not a problem because everybody knows him, but if a person does not watch the clone wars series, he or she will probably not know the Nightsisters of Dathomir, and they do not exist yet in our galaxy. Although the example is clear so I don't think it won't be a problem within this example, I prefer if you stick to the common knowledge and on this wiki accessible items for examples. In this way there will be no discussion about what the example is. (Just like the time when you used the paaerduag as an example in the builder, while they didn't existed in our galaxy yet.)
Yeah well -- while I agree with your point, if there is no other example for what you try to point out (I challenge you to name an "individual with access to Force Powers despite not being Jedi." that is in our game), this can't be helped.
I think that a link to the example might help though: Wookiepedia on Nightsister.
5 posts (analysis)
• Page 1 of 1